riosleftsock
11:51 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Bagram airfield and military base is within about 600 miles of both the chinese and iranian borders. Biden gave this up. That's not just imprudent.
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Crassus
7:36 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Pickle
In fairness you have been consistent in that regard
But I put it to you that Afghanistan is no more than a symptom of the cause and the cause is the very reason that someone like Trump not only gained support but the White House. He damn near stayed there too, in the face of the most hostile and unified media campaign imaginable
Which begs the question of who are these ‘civilised democracies’ who failed?
Clearly not the UK and Canada who shared proportionate loss of life and investment
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Hammer and Pickle
7:19 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Crassus
I'm not at all happy about how the civilised democracies have failed in Afghanistan either.
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Crassus
7:08 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Pickle
Your talk of Trump being in active cooperation with the Taliban is an interesting observation
Are you suggesting that Biden has not been?
And consider this, from the perspective of a redundant, ex automotive employee in the Rust Belt, looking out and seeing the freeway full of German cars, whilst waiting for his son’s coffin to return from Afghanistan
That will be the Germany that would not exist were it not for his nation, and has shamefully, with France, prospered post war whilst wilfully swerving their NATO responsibility
Not surprising that his appetite for a continued deployment has evaporated and funny enough, in the face of EU squealing, provoked Macron to say that Europe can no longer rely upon the US for security
A pity that they did not recognise a mutuality before
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Mike Oxsaw
6:53 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Capitol Man 5:25 Sat Sep 4
NOBODY is saying it didn't need to come to an end. fucknuts.
There is no proof that sticking to Trumps plan would have been any worse (and that's not saying it would have been) but at least the troops would have stayed to the last to oversee the evacuation. That also means the money was still flowing in, keeping everybody sweet.
What proof do you have that "every and any exit would have been messy and horrible at some point"? You have no direct experience in such things so that's just flappygob opinion.
And YOU are still banging on about coming out of this with an Afghan state - a western concept trying to force people who hate each other with unimaginable passion (as YOU clearly can't imagine it) to live together when they would rather shoot each other than share a room.
What MAY have worked was something similar to that which brought peace in the Balkans - separating what we westerners have decided is Afghanistan into antonymous regions, each led by a nominated/agreed warlord and the UN providing border patrols to prevent skirmishes.
Whatever Biden's decision was, it wasn't with the aim of getting everybody out in the safest possible manner. Biden fucked up.
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Hammer and Pickle
6:51 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Of course I answered the question and it’s just you don’t like it - they are just at much at the service of the military industrial complex as the GOP.
Hence this collective mass fuck-up.
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Nutsin
6:50 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Pickle
Here’s another one,
After Benghazi and now Afghanistan are the Democrat party now the official party of “Leave Americans behind?”
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Nutsin
6:49 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Pickle
You still haven’t answered my question have you?
Why are the Democrats so liberal with other peoples money and other peoples lives?
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Hammer and Pickle
6:39 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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That’s right Muppet - when it gets a little too close to the truth for comfort, talk about Biden checking his watch and your interpretation of what the US media says.
Why change a familiar pattern?
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Hermit Road
6:33 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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As mentioned earlier on this thread, while the bodies of the killed servicemen and women were being taken from the planes, Biden stood there checking his watch.
A journalist working for USA Today, supposedly middle of the road and objective, fact-checked the photos of Biden checking his watch and debunked them saying it was misleading.
Now he has been shamed into admitting he was wrong.
With the vast majority of the US media running coverage for Biden, it is understandable why rational people don't have much trust in them.
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Hammer and Pickle
6:27 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Of course.
In Trump’s case it would have been active cooperation with the Taliban and a humanitarian crisis far beyond anything we’re seeing today.
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Nutsin
6:22 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Is anyone keeping tally of the number of lies Biden has told or are there simply too many to count?
Where’s Tex when you need him?
Mong, you still haven’t answered my question mate. (That felt dirty)
Could Bidens retreat and withdrawal from Afghanistan been handled any worse?
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Hammer and Pickle
6:20 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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I know the Poles got 1400 out, so their special forces presence would have been at least noted.
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Crassus
6:16 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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That pre-proposes the British Special Forces are not operative - they are, and that is in the public domain
The issue remains upon a broader military, of what national composition?
And how many Polish Paras served in Afghanistan?
Not a dig at Poland btw, as it is one of the very few that actually meet their NATO commitment
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Hammer and Pickle
6:12 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Crassus
Judging by the fact there is organised resistance to the Taliban in the Panjshir and the capacity of our paras to operate in the theatre, a combination of a fraction of the resources being spent previously on blowing people up from the air and propping up a corrupt regime would have transformed the scenario.
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Crassus
6:00 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Pickle
Whilst appreciating your sentiment of retaining a military presence, a quick question
Of what national composition and financed by whom?
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
5:58 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Imagine posting on here for four years, cheer-leading for any/all of Trump's oppenents.
Imagine then your man scraping home in the race for the White House. The triumph! The vindiction! The bragging-rights!
Imagine though, inside a year, your man then making the biggest foreign policy blunder in half a century, totally emasculating the US on the world stage and in the process showing you up as completely, um, wrong.
Still, nearly worked...
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Capitol Man
5:27 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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nychammer 5:11 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
But that definition is never clear is it. Do their families come? What do you define as worked with, cleaned the base? Interpreter? Cooked? A good proportion of the army who worked directly with Americans?
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Capitol Man
5:25 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Small cock - you don’t seem to be grasping what has been said.
I’m not advocating for staying there long term - I’m saying it needed to come to an end. I’m saying every and any exit would have been messy and horrible at some point as once you accept that the Afghan state could not stand on it’s own, there was always going to be line drawn somewhere. It’s just a question of where that line is and what is the cost in terms of lives depending on where you want to try to put it.
The only alternative to having that line is to coir to remain there forever - which brings a new set of problems, costs and consequences.
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Hammer and Pickle
5:22 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Oi Ratched, why don’t you tell us the one about how your sons have signed up for the Taliban Territorial Army?
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Cabbage Savage
5:13 Sat Sep 4
Re: Afghanistan
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Capidulzzz
Wot is jok?
Pickle say it is skottish people?
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